The Pizza Therapy Forum and Pasta Therapy Forum

[sourdough]

Hi, All!
I'm excited to find this website! I have been on a quest for many years and I'm thinking that maybe you guys can help me!

Some of my best memories of my childhood center around spending summers with my mother's parents in NE PA... and in the late 50s, early 60s, that was a big deal because we lived in Oregon! Grandpa would send me down to Tommy's Pizza on Wyoming Ave off of Schooley Street in Exeter (across the river from Pittston) with a few dollars and I would bring home 12 cuts of WONDERFUL cheese pizza! I'm sure my love for this pizza is colored by the happiness of the time, so I have been trying to replicate that pizza at home for many years but can't figure out WHAT it was that made it SO different! It had an unusual flavor that I have only tasted in one other product: Pizza flavored Bugles Snacks from the late 60s. I read with great interest a thread about Victory Pig pizza on Roadfood.com... and threw a pizza on the grill last night with oil in the sheet pan... lots of onions in the sauce and just a little oregano... and I got closer! Any suggestions out there?? I LOVE to make pizza at home... both in the oven on my stone and on the grill! Talk about comfort food... I am a true foodie (was a deli manager for an upscale Puget Sound grocery chain for MANY years!) and so would love to help with any food questions in return for help with this pizza quest! And BTW, I have ditched cornmeal as my peel "greaser" for stone baked pizza... I now use RICE FLOUR, which gives a nice little crunch without that burned cornmeal flavor from the hot stone! Anyway, sorry to be so windy... I'll keep it shorter next time!
_________________
We may live without poetry, music, and art;
We may live without conscience and live without heart;
We may live without friends, we may live without books;
But civilized man cannot live without cooks.
~~Owen Meredith

[pizza]

On behalf of the Forum...

Welcome!

I am very excited about you being here.

You have a lot to say and a lot to share...

Please feel free to make your posts as short or as long
as you like. Believe me, no-one here minds one bit.

We welcome opinions!

BTW...

That is a fantastic tip about rice flour. You may really be onto someting here.

Your story reminds me a little bit of how Peter Reinhart starts
"American Pie: My Search for the Perfect Pizza".

http://pizzatherapy.com/ameripie.htm

He grew up in PA as well (Philly I think), and
he talks aobut going back to sample some of
his favorite Philly pizza.

"Did I change or did the pizza change" he asks.

Maybe a little of both he concludes...

Anyway welcome here sourdough!

Do you have any experience with making sourdough pizza?
_________________
"Pizza on Earth...Good Will to All!"
Visit: http://pizzatherapy.com
http://pizzatherapy.blogspot.com/
http://legendsofpizza.com/blog

[sourdough]

Hey, pizza!

I'm glad to have found this forum!

I wish I could take credit for the rice flour tip, but it actually came from Bev Collins (Secrets from the Pizzaria author) with whom I have been emailing back and forth for a while. When she gave me the tip, I emailed back that I was going to try it right away because I have rice flour in my pantry as we "speak"... she responded with a chuckle that I am a true foodie!! An awesome compliment! And now I'm hooked on rice flour because you can barely tell it's there compared to the burned grit that cornmeal leaves on the crust!

Also, I have emailed back and forth with Mr. Peter Reinhart... I bought his American Pie and also have The Bread Baker's Apprentice, both of which I LOVE! I was SO shocked that he would have time to reply to my questions about Tommy's Pizza... I printed off copies of his emails and stuck them inside his books! Of course, there wasn't much he could do to help me...

But, with continued research, mostly on the 'net, I have discovered that this type of pizza is NEPA (NE Pennsylvania, that is) style and it seems to be a type that is quite different from what you think of as "regular" (i.e. NY style) in that it is "cooked" in a sheet pan with oil to actually fry the crust in the hot oven. Obviously, therefore, it is retangular (or square) instead of round, crust fried instead of baked on hot stone or brick. The sauce is simple, robust and onion-y, the cheese mostly white and creamy as well as stringy. It is NOT Old Forge pizza, it is NOT Victory Pig pizza (according to folks on Roadfood.com and PizzaMaking.com). So, I have learned a lot, so far, but still need to figure out the components of the sauce and which cheeses to use. One source tells me to mix jack with the mozz instead of sharp white cheddar. I'm gonna try that next! Luckily, DH LOVES pizza because he is eating a lot of it! The last iteration was cooked on a HOT grill (Webber Kettle) and it was the closest I've gotten yet. Think I'm gonna buy another stone to put between the coals and the pan to mitigate the heat on the bottom of the crust. I have two stones in my oven, one dedicated to pizza and one to bread. I actually use the bread stone on the rack above the pizza stone so that when I make pizza, it has stones both below and just above. I really think it helps.

Anyway, as for your question about sourdough... with help from Peter Reinhart's Bread Bakers Apprentice, I have captured my own strain of wild yeast (I call it the Puget Sound Strain since I live just a couple of miles from the water) which I have been working with to develop its flavor and sourness. I sent a dried sample to Bev Collins and she reports that it traveled well and has made her some very nice bread with the hint of sour that she prefers. I prefer a more assertive SOUR and so am working to get the pH up, mostly by keeping the water content lower (more anaerobic). I've not started with the pizza crust trials yet... I DO, however, plan to start some pizza dough applications soon... if you have any suggestions, I'm certainly happy to entertain them!

Thanks for the welcome and the post...
~sd
_________________
We may live without poetry, music, and art;
We may live without conscience and live without heart;
We may live without friends, we may live without books;
But civilized man cannot live without cooks.
~~Owen Meredith

[pizza]

Thanks so much sourdough.

Great information.

You really know your pizza and you will conitnue to be an asset to our community.

Not many people are aware of Old Forge pizza. However, the fans of Old Forge pizza are very serious about it.

The pizza you describe being made in a square pan, reminds me of the type of pizza we would get at
bakeries in Providence, Rhode Island when I was a kid.

Also the people on Long Island have a pizza there called grandmother's pizza, which also sounds similar.

Also sounds like Sicilian Pizza, which is made in New York...

I also have The Bread Baker's Apprentice and in my
interview with Peter Reinhart for Legends of Pizza,

http://pizzatherapy.com/legends.htm

I told Peter I thought it was the "Bible of bread making".

And I agree, he is a very good person with a big heart.

He is a legend of pizza

http://legendsofpizza.com

Again, I am pleased you are so willing to share your expertise and knowledge.

Thank you my friend.

pizza on earth,

albert grande
http://pizzatherapy.com

PS I actually like the taste of the burnt corn meal on my pizza, but I will try rice flour to see if it makes a difference.

[sourdough]

Thanks, pizza!

I would certainly be interested to hear what you think of the rice flour peel greaser! I don't mind a little cornmeal IN my crust, but just don't care for the loose cornmeal under the crust. I feel like I need to "clean" it off! Heh!

Let me know what you think when you try it, 'k?

~sd
_________________
We may live without poetry, music, and art;
We may live without conscience and live without heart;
We may live without friends, we may live without books;
But civilized man cannot live without cooks.
~~Owen Meredith

[CJ]

We use to make a Sicilian Pizza in a square pan that was well oiled. It used a double dough and had a sour taste after we baked it.

We put the dough in the pan and proofed it on top of the oven before we put the sauce and cheese on it and baked it.

I can't help you with the sauce because we used the same sauce we used on the NY Style pizza for the Sicillian.

We made these pizzas in Utica, NY while working for the Bambino family.
_________________
Southern Yankee